Detune Alternative Archives

I always hear conflicting advice on this one. Some say detuning isn't necessary on modern skis. Whilst other recommend you detune the tip & tail.

What do you do and why?

N.B. I realize this probably has no impact on my skiing whatsoever. Just curious

yay

Whenever I do a good edge tune ( expecially on wider skis) and dont detune the tips they hook like a mofo. I always detune the top and bottom 4"ish with a medium diamond stone


edges are over rated anyway

Each ski and skier are different. Start the day sharp tip to tail and detune during the day to find what works for you.

YAY

i always did it when i was tuning my race skis. tune ski, then detune tips and tails. this practice kinda carried over into all my other skis as well. i agree with skiingsamurai, if you don't detune skis tend to hook like crazy.

i have never once even sharpened my skis, seems like a waste of effort to me, they turn just fine even on bulletproof.

Each ski and skier are different. Start the day sharp tip to tail and detune during the day to find what works for you.

+1

For customers, we always asked. If they didn't know wtf we were talking about we would explain and go from there.

Yay. I detune the tips and tails.

Yeah, I de-tune my tips and tails. Otherwise they feel like rollerblades on snow... hooky!

Nay.
But I don't buy skis with sidecut.
I detuned those when I had them, since they were hooky.

What are the pros and cons of having a lot of sidecut with detuned tips vs a straighter ski with a normal tune?

What are the pros and cons of having a lot of sidecut with detuned tips vs a straighter ski with a normal tune?

More sidecut can still carve a tighter turn. When detuned they no longer feel like they are locked onto rails ONLY carving.


Straighter and normal still carves a bigger radius and also is easier to slide because of that radius

Yay. Took a good look at your skis and you will see that the manufacturer has already done it.

Yeah, I de-tune my tips and tails. Otherwise they feel like rollerblades on snow...

soy and cold? ouch.

Detune for sure!

You're gonna notice a huge difference in ski reaction, especially when you've increased your base/side bevels. I've always detuned back to the standard, "where the edge meets the snow" You'll notice differences in when the ski hooks up and if the ski tracks

I have never detuned skis modern or otherwise ,I always figured you paid for that edge so why not use it all

I prefer to leave them sharp as hell and adjust my ski style, you can work with a "hooky" ski, you can't do shite with a dull ski.

Nay.

Detuning is just a crutch for improper tuning. If you have the overall base bevel set correctly for your equipment (ski type, binding and boot stiffness play a big factor) and skiing style, the ski will not be hooky, but will still carve tip-to-tail on ice. If you detune alot, the tips and tails won't grip and the skis will feel short and squirelly when carving.

If you still want tips and tails that are less agressive, a better alternative is to heavily base bevel them. Overall base bevel is usually 1 or 2 degrees, you can go up to 3, 4 or 5+ degrees on the tips and tails......they will pivot better, but will still grip when carved. This a type of "progressive beveling".

This applies only to the running surface of the edge and sometimes the widest point of the tip if the sidecut extends beyond the running surface. The non-contact parts of the tip and and tail should be agressively detuned (rounded off) so they don't hook on moguls, ice chunk, etc.

Haha. Why the fuck do you need to de-tune snowblades Scott boy? ;)

Yay. Hate that feeling of being locked on edge.

Nay.

Detuning is just a crutch for improper tuning. If you have the overall base bevel set correctly for your equipment (ski type, binding and boot stiffness play a big factor) and skiing style, the ski will not be hooky, but will still carve tip-to-tail on ice. If you detune alot, the tips and tails won't grip and the skis will feel short and squirelly when carving.

If you still want tips and tails that are less agressive, a better alternative is to heavily base bevel them. Overall base bevel is usually 1 or 2 degrees, you can go up to 3, 4 or 5+ degrees on the tips and tails......they will pivot better, but will still grip when carved. This a type of "progressive beveling".

This applies only to the running surface of the edge and sometimes the widest point of the tip if the sidecut extends beyond the running surface. The non-contact parts of the tip and and tail should be agressively detuned (rounded off) so they don't hook on moguls, ice chunk, etc.
I would have written the same post if I skied primarily the east coast too. Carving on a groomed artificial hardpack requires quite a different tune than say buttering pow turns in open bowls and down couliors.

I would have written the same post if I skied primarily the east coast too. Carving on a groomed artificial hardpack requires quite a different tune than say buttering pow turns in open bowls and down couliors.

Sharp edges don't really hurt for skiing pow...

i have never once even sharpened my skis, seems like a waste of effort to me, they turn just fine even on bulletproof.

If they turn just fine, why did you end up looking like your avatar?
;)

Nay.

I've always felt that detuing edges was a methos used by people who have difficulty releasing edges and transitioning from turn to turn. Their method is to detune the edge so they can just let the skis run more instead of making a turn.

Would you guys detune tip and tail edges on a reverse camber ski(Kuro). I would think not but I will be doing lots of high speed side-slipping on them, powder or no pow and Ive never skied a funny shape ski before so...

Nay.
Detuning is just a crutch for improper tuning...the tip and and tail should be agressively detuned (rounded off) so they don't hook on moguls, ice chunk, etc.

:confused: Hang on...so you're saying nay...but then saying yay? :confused:
Isn't it only the tips and tails that get detuned anyway?

TurxSki- you left "non-contact points of tip and tail" out of Sanders' quote. Read, then quote.

Nay. I never detune.

Even my pow skis are diamoned tip to tail.

Learn to shape your edges, not round them.

TurxSki- you left "non-contact points of tip and tail" out of Sanders' quote. Read, then quote.

Nay. I never detune.

Even my pow skis are diamoned tip to tail.

Learn to shape your edges, not round them.

Thanks....

Another thing to note is that many shops do a very poor job machine tuning - it's very easy to mess up a pair of skis with a stonegrinder, belt sander, and edger. Typically you see wonky, very inconsistant bevels, and concave bases. It's good to know how to use a knife edge true bar to check your bases and measure your bevels.

Factory tunes are generally consistant, but tend to be over-beveled at the base, at around 2+ degrees. Makes a new ski very easy turn, at the expense of grip.

Proper base bevel is much more important than side edge bevel.....because you are standing directly on it while turning. Unfortunately it is the hardest to tune, and very easy to over bevel.

The best file to set base bevel with is a large, stiff PANZER, with a high quality guide. It removes some base material instaid of flexing around the edge. Clean up with a diamond stone.

If you get a fresh tune and it feels squrrelly and hooky all the time, chances are your bevels are inconsistant or the base is concave. If you can't get the ski on edge, it's likely to be over beveled. If the edge feels immediate and grabby along the entire length of the ski, it doesn't have enough base bevel. Hooky tips and tails can also come from the middle of the ski having more base bevel than the tips and tails.

If a tune feels funny, don't bring it back to a shop and let them tell you it needs to be detuned more. Take it to someone who knows what they are doing.

I tune entirely by hand, including beveling and base planing with a skivisions....they turn out very flat, consistant and accurately beveled. It also lets me do things like a reverse-progressive bevel or recessed bevels (nice for maintaining a ski you hit lots of rocks with)

This applies only to the running surface of the edge and sometimes the widest point of the tip if the sidecut extends beyond the running surface. The non-contact parts of the tip and and tail should be agressively detuned (rounded off) so they don't hook on moguls, ice chunk, etc.

This is something I've been thinking about because of skis coming out with 're-curve' (normal camber underfoot, rockered tips and tails, normal sidecut throughout...see any one of the many Praxis threads). What is going to be the proper way to tune a recurved ski?

The best file to set base bevel with is a large, stiff PANZER, with a high quality guide. It removes some base material instaid of flexing around the edge. Clean up with a diamond stone.


Jesus God, man. Panzers are designed for base repair material removal, and although they can be useful in setting an initial edge bevel (say a 4 deg. side bevel from a 1 deg.), recommending people just go to town on their base edge with a panzer is really pushing it. Most folks will push down hard on their files, causing them to warp, rounding the edge, and giving a piss-poor base bevel, instead of letting their tools do the work. Panzers will tear the shit out of a ski if not used properly.

Edit to add:

Yay and nay both for detuning. Detune edges past the contact points to avoid collateral damage, and give your contact points a swipe or two if they're hooking up. Shaped skis don't need to be detuned like you old P9's, just a little rubby with a gummi.

I find all other things being equal, I have to detune the tips more on my skis that have more camber, less or none on flatter camber skis. I have a pair of old head im85's, skinny by todays standards, but I like them in the right snow. They have a lot of camber and a moderate sidecut. They have mostly been eclipsed by my Legend Pros, but every now and again I like to ride them. It has been a sort of love hate relationship as I found them very hooky in some conditions until tried detuning tips and tails and gone is the hookyness I hate about them. My AC4's which have much more sidecut, but less camber, have never needed an edge detune, nor have my Gotomas, Legend Pros or Explosives, probably because in addition to flatter camber, they also have less side cut. It depends on the ski, you have to ski them and see if they would benefit from it. If they are too carvey or are catching edges especially at the tip, or not releasing in the tail, a detune is worth a try. I just use a gummy stone very lightly to take the sharpness out of the edge just a few inches along the tip and tails.

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Hello,

I like to have a slightly detuned sound, with a pinch of overdrive, on some of my jazz guitar tones. I used to trust mda-detune, which does exactly what I want.

In Reaper, the problem is, the sound is ok, except I cannot change any setting ! The plugin itself has no UI, so I am a bit surprised it causes such a problem...

Any idea ?

Are there some simple alternative to simply have a slightly detuned (mono is fine !) sound ?

I was also searching for a decent VST picth shifter, but I did not find anything convincing. If all the other effects I have now are all better than my good old Digitech RP 2000 floor effect unit, its integrated pitch shifter/whammy thing seems to smoke any VST/DX effect I tried.

Any suggestion ? (freeware is welcome, obviously, as now all my $$ are spent for my newborn Elisa. One month tonight ! Time is flying... )

Couldn't you just detune your guitar...? There is also the Jesusonic Pitch plugin that you could probably use.

:)
The detune effect adds a slightly out of tune note to the original one, I don't know exactly how... Maybe it is simply a pitch shifter effect.

I gave up the JS effects very soon because they were adding a very bad "digital" "gzzzing style" sound to my guitar, which I hated. I only tried the chorus/phaser sort of things.



I also have a super cool effect on my RP2000 which I would love to find as a VST or DX: this effects slowly shift your pitch up, and then down, but in a very very subtle way, so that it is barely audible. It creates a kind of "wave", which could be comparable to a tape not running very smoothly, except that the effect itself is very clean and smooth. It can be used for some slow, sad jazz guitar.

I wish I could find a simple VST that does that. I am sure that 8 bands chorus big units can do it with the appropriate settings...




Couldn't you just detune your guitar...? There is also the Jesusonic Pitch plugin that you could probably use.

I also like to use mda detune on guitar, it works in Reaper, but you have to fiddle around with the transport, start/stop playback then make adjustments in the mda detune ui.......you'll figure it out.......fiddle with it.. :)

--

hey thanks for the tip.
So some control work, and some don't. For those who don't, move the slider, the value is not updated. Play, then stop. Click on the slider, the value is updated.
Wierd...

I also like to use mda detune on guitar, it works in Reaper, but you have to fiddle around with the transport, start/stop playback then make adjustments in the mda detune ui.......you'll figure it out.......fiddle with it.. :)

--

It behaves the same way in Tracktion, so I guess it's a fault with the plugin.....it's a shame though, because it does have a nice clean sound.

--

:)
The detune effect adds a slightly out of tune note to the original one, I don't know exactly how... Maybe it is simply a pitch shifter effect.

I gave up the JS effects very soon because they were adding a very bad "digital" "gzzzing style" sound to my guitar, which I hated. I only tried the chorus/phaser sort of things.



I also have a super cool effect on my RP2000 which I would love to find as a VST or DX: this effects slowly shift your pitch up, and then down, but in a very very subtle way, so that it is barely audible. It creates a kind of "wave", which could be comparable to a tape not running very smoothly, except that the effect itself is very clean and smooth. It can be used for some slow, sad jazz guitar.

I wish I could find a simple VST that does that. I am sure that 8 bands chorus big units can do it with the appropriate settings...

Couldn't you accomplish something pretty similar with a chorus? Also a flanger with the right (or maybe wrong) settings sounds relatively close to what you describe here.

I've never heard the effect you are talking about so I'm probably not exactly helping... :)

mdaDetune is flaky in other apps interface-wise also. It still sounds good, though.

Couldn't you accomplish something pretty similar with a chorus? Also a flanger with the right (or maybe wrong) settings sounds relatively close to what you describe here.

Maybe, but I think what he's talking about is the kind of chorus that's done with two pitch shifters instead of one that's done with two delays.

There are such plugins
I like Tiny God's Tiny Chorus, but that's partly because the name goes so well with REAPER and Jesusonic

The newer GChorus is new to me, but choruses with detune in cents and no LFO, so it may be like mdaDetune

Betabugs MonstaChorus is also pitch-based, but may not be subtle enough for you.

Google is your friend.

Hello,

I tried the GVst series recently, and I like them very much: simple and efficient. Not too many buttons or sliders.
I use the GComp2, GGain, and Gchorus which has a subtle sound, you are right, not too far from the detune I am looking for.

I will try the Tiny Chorus.
Thanks all !

mdaDetune is flaky in other apps interface-wise also. It still sounds good, though.



Maybe, but I think what he's talking about is the kind of chorus that's done with two pitch shifters instead of one that's done with two delays.

There are such plugins
I like Tiny God's Tiny Chorus, but that's partly because the name goes so well with REAPER and Jesusonic

The newer GChorus is new to me, but choruses with detune in cents and no LFO, so it may be like mdaDetune

Betabugs MonstaChorus is also pitch-based, but may not be subtle enough for you.

Google is your friend.

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